WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Good evening.
I’m William# Brangham.
Amna Nawaz and Geoff Bennett are away.
On the “News Hour” tonight: President Trump# lashes out at NATO allies for not helping to## secure the Strait of Hormuz, as Iran continues# to strike oil and gas facilities in the region.
A wide-ranging conversation with# New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani.
ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), Mayor of New York City:# We believe that a structural crisis deserves## structural solutions, and that comes from# taxing the wealthiest a little bit more.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And despite the# president’s vow to revive manufacturing,## we explore why finding a factory job# has become so difficult in the U.S.
(BREAK) WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Welcome to the “News Hour.”
President Trump said today that the United# States was not interested in a ceas.. Iran because, from a military standpoint, he said# Iran was finished.
Late today, Trump said on TRUTH## Social that — quote — “We are getting very close# to meeting our objectives as we consider winding## down our great military efforts in the Middle East# with respect to the terrorist regime of Iran.”
Meanwhile, Israel and the United States continue# to attack Iran today, hitting the same kinds## of targets they have struck throughout this# campaign.
And Iran continued to strike back,## with missiles and drones landing in Israel and on# oil and gas facilities across the Persian Gulf.
White House correspondent# Liz Landers has the latest.
LIZ LANDERS: Today, in the Holy Land,## its holy city bombed.
Iran today struck# the ancient Old Quarter of Jerusalem,## a missile landing only a few hundred feet# from the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Western Wall,## places of prayer sacred to billions, as further# Iranian attacks hit the city of Rehovot in the## country’s center, killing 15 people nationwide,# as the war’s casualty rate continues to grow.
Iran is threatening to keep up the fight,# its Revolutionary Guard today releasing a## statement announcing that the embattled regime# is continuing to produce missiles and stockpiles## are high, having again today struck Kuwait’s# Al-Ahmadi and Mina Abdullah oil refineries,## forcing both to shut down, as the# price of gas inches up even higher.
A barrel of Brent crude oil today peaked at# $111.
With the war now entering its fourth week,## Iran has heavily damaged many petroleum# facilities and other targets in the region,## as the new supreme leader, Ayatollah Mojtaba# Khamenei, today released a statement on the eve## of Nowruz vowing to continue the battle and urging# the nation to stay steadfast in the face of war.
In Tehran, mourners gathered to pay# to continue Intelligence Minister## Esmail Khatib killed Wednesday by Israeli fire.
MAN (through translator): We have come to# say that no matter how much you kill us,## we become more awake, more alert.
We will# not back down.
We will not abandon the## streets.
We will not abandon the front# line.
Death to America.
Death to Israel.
LIZ LANDERS: Fifteen senior# IRGC government officials## have now been killed since the start of the war.
President Donald Trump touching upon these# regime losses as grounds to continue the war.
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United# States: You don’t do a cease-fire when## you’re literally obliterating the other side.# They don’t have a navy.
They don’t ha.. force.
They don’t have any equipment.
They# don’t have any spotters.
They don’t have## anti-aircraft.
They don’t have radar.
And their# leaders have all been killed at every level.
LIZ LANDERS: The U.S.
today continued its campaign# targeting Iran’s navy and drone capabilities in## order to open the Strait of Hormuz, as President# Trump today criticized NATO countries for not## helping in the effort, writing on TRUTH Social# that the nations — quote — “:complain about## the high oil prices they are forced to pay, but# don’t want to help open the Strait of Hormuz,## a simple military maneuver that is the# single reason for the high oil prices,## so easy for them to do with so little# risk.
Cowards.
And we will remember.”
As the strait remains in the war’s# choke hold, seven NATO countries## today issued a statement condemning Iran’s# attacks.
Britain, France, Germany, Italy,## the Netherlands, Japan and Canada penned# the statement, saying that they were ready## to — quote — “contribute to appropriate# efforts to ensure safe passage through the## strait.
We welcome the commitment of nations# who are engaged in preparatory planning.”
But French President Emmanuel Macron# expressed doubt in joining the war## after European nations met in Brussels today.
EMMANUEL MACRON, French President# (through translator): I have not## heard anyone here expres.. and I do not believe that taking part# in an escalation, should one occur,## would in any way resolve the international# situation or its consequences for our economies.
LIZ LANDERS: That concern for the war’s# economic fallout shared by some Americans.
ARIADNE BLACKMON, Houston Resident: It’s very# disheartening, all the lives that are lost,## and also just the fate of the economy in general.
LIZ LANDERS: But the president’s base remains# supportive of the military intervention in Iran,## according to a new Politico poll out Friday;# 70 percent of the president’s 2024 voters## support the strikes last month, with 53# percent of self-identified MAGA voters## saying they back the military moves because# they trust Trump to do the right thing,## though more than half of Americans overall do# not support the war, according to several polls.
Meanwhile, on the streets of Beirut,# hundreds of thousands of Lebanese## displaced by Israeli attacks, now greet Eid,# meant to be a time of celebration and peace,## homeless and in the rain; 33-year-old# Samah Hjola was forced out of her home## in Beirut’s southern suburbs.
She now# lives in a minibus with her two children.
SAMAH HJOLA, Displaced Lebanese# Mother (through translator):## This Eid is certainly different from the Eid# befo.. We were at home.
My children had new clothes# for the Eid, and their lives were, of course,## different.
Everything is difficult.# There’s nothing that isn’t difficult.
LIZ LANDERS: And while the# adults put on a brave face## this holiday for the nation’s children,# the destruction and loss is everywhere.
For the “PBS News Hour,” I’m Liz Landers.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: We start today’s# other headlines on Capitol Hill, where## a stalemate over the funding of the Department of# Homeland Security is showing no signs of ending.
MAN: Upon reconsideration,# the motion is not agreed to.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: A fifth attempt to# fund the agency failed in a Senate vote## today.
For more than a month now, the# lapse has especially impacted the TSA,## wreaking havoc on airports around the country.
Separately, senators are sticking around# Washington for a rare weekend session to debate## some of President Trump’s priorities, namely the# SAVE Act.
That’s the GOP bill requiring proof of## U.S.
citizenship when registering to vote.# Sponsors say the idea is simple and popular,## but Democrats and a few Republicans# say the legislation goes too far.
The Trump administration has sued Harvard# University again.
The Justice Department’s## newest lawsuit accuses Harvard of allowing# antisemitism to spread on its campus and## seeks to recover billions of dollars in# government grants that were given to the school.
It is the latest escalation in a lengthy battle# between the government and the Ivy League## institution.
Last year, a federal judge sided with# Harvard in a separate suit, ruling that efforts## to cut funding were unconstitutional and ordered# that money restored.
The government has appealed.
CBS News said it is shutting down# its storied radio service as part## of a new round of layoffs that amount# to 6 percent of its overall work force.## CBS News Radio will stop operating in may# after almost 100 years of broadcasting.
Some of its most famous moments included Edward# R. Murrow’s World War II broadcasts from Europe## and FDR’s historic fireside chats, which ran# during the Depression.
CBS News leadership,## including editor in chief Bari Weiss,# called the move a necessary decision,## citing economic challenges and# changes in listening habits.
More than 4,000 people in towns north# of Hawaii’s capital have been told to## evacuate.
Rising floodwaters could lead to the# potential failure of a more-than-century-old## dam there.
Emergency sirens blared early# this morning along Oahu’s north shore.
Residents of Waialua and Haleiwa# were told to leave.
This is the## second significant storm to hammer# the Hawaiian Islands in just a week.## Last weekend’s storm triggered dangerous flooding# that washed away roads and damaged homes.
The## state’s National Guard has been activated# to respond to this latest round of floods.
As the war with Iran sends oil prices climbing,# stocks on Wall Street continued plummeting.
The## Dow Jones industrial average has now# logged four straight weeks of losses,## its worst stretch since 2023.
The Nasdaq lost# more than 2 percent, as both major indices are## approaching correction territory.
The S&P 500 also# ended the week lower, losing more than a percent.
The world-famous K-pop group BTS will# make its long-awaited comeback with## a free concert in Seoul tomorrow.
The band# has been on a hiatus for roughly four years,## as the members completed mandatory military# service and did some solo projects.
Workers## have built up the venue at one of Seoul’s most# famous cultural heritage sites.
The hour-long## concert is expected to draw tens of thousands# of fans and will be livestreamed on Netflix.
And a passing of note.
Chuck Norris, the# fighting front man of Hollywood action films,## has died.
His mastery of competitive martial arts# began in Korea during an Air Force deployment.## After his service, Norris dominated the sport,# winning six karate world championships in a row.
He brought those skills to the big screen,# alongside his friend and frequent sparring## partner Bruce Lee.
Their coliseum# face-off in 1972’s “Return of the## Dragon” is an iconic showdown.
Then, in the# 90s, Norris took on his most famous role.
CHUCK NORRIS, Actor: You have# the right to remain silent.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Norris starred in the TV# series “Walker, Texas Ranger” for nearly a## decade.
His tough guy persona would resonate# with a new generation online.
Memes about## him called Chuck Norris Facts went so viral,# he published his own fact book full of them.
Norris was also an outspoken# conservative and backed a## number of Republican candidates over the# years.
His family gave no cause of death,## but said it was a sudden passing.# Chuck Norris was 86 years old.
Still to come on the “News Hour”: long lines# continue, as the partial government shutdown## causes TSA shortages at airports nationwide; David# Brooks and Jonathan Capehart weigh in on the war## in Iran; and a look at the rising business# of sports betting as March Madness begins.
As the Muslim holy month of# Ramadan comes to a close,## Amna Nawaz traveled to New York# City to talk to one of the most## high-profile Muslim leaders in one of the most# high-pressure political jobs in the country.
Zohran Mamdani is less than three# months into his term as mayor of## America’s biggest city.
He’s juggling how# to fulfill his ambitious campaign promises,## manage a huge budget deficit, and respond to a# rise in Islamophobic rhetoric across the country.
The young Democratic socialist has also# forged a unique relationship with President## Trump through Oval Office visits and# their shared love of New York City.
Here’s Amna’s exclusive# conversation with Mayor Mamdani.
AMNA NAWAZ: Mr.
Mayor, welcome to the# “News Hour.”
Thanks for making the time.
ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), Mayor of New York City:# Absolutely.
Thank you so much for being here.
AMNA NAWAZ: So let’s talk a little bit# about your first few months in offi.. You really had to hit the ground# running.
You had a lot coming at## you too.
You had a major nurses strike# to handle, a record-breaking snowstorm.
I know you have probably heard the# difference between campaigning in poetry,## governing in prose.
Does that bring true# to you?
Have you found that to be true?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think there’s still# a little poetry in the day-to-day.
AMNA NAWAZ: OK.
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think it’s important that we don’t let our imagination become# constrained by what we a.. And in some ways we tasked ourselves with# trying to keep up with New Yorkers, because,## in addition to first winter storm in# a while, first blizzard in 10 years,## nurses strike, where we stood there on the# picket line with the nurses as they fought## for wages that could afford to have to live in# New York City as they worked in New York City,## we also just wanted to show New Yorkers that# city government could work as fast as they do.
AMNA NAWAZ: What’s surprised you most about# the role since you have stepped into it?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think the amount that you can# do, to be honest with you.
It’s not to say that## this work is easy, but that when you are willing,# there is an immense amount of possibility.
And then, on day eight, we joined together# with Governor Hochul to announce a $1.2## billion funding of a pathway to# universal childcare.
And that’s## transformative for New York City families.# And to have the opportunity to be able to## act upon the vision that we’d shared with# New Yorkers, it’s the gift of a lifetime.
AMNA NAWAZ: You also very early held a press# conference in which you shared that you would## inherited a major budget deficit, some $12# billion.
Tell me — and you have repeated it## actually since then in multiple interviews# I know you want to get that message out.
Is that a little bit about# expectation setting?
Like,## you might not be able to hit all of the# affordability goals that you set out?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: We just want to be honest# and transparent with New Yorkers.
We’re## talking about a generational fiscal deficit,# as you said, inheriting what was $12 billion.
And thanks to the work that we have done in terms# of savings, in terms of utilizing our reserves,## we have brought that down to $5.4 billion, also# in partnership with the governor’s commitment## to this city.
And now, over these next few weeks# and months, our job is to bring that down to zero.
AMNA NAWAZ: What’s the plan to bring it# down to zero?
You have to raise revenue.
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: We believe that a structural# crisis deserves structural solutions.
And## that comes from taxing the wealthiest a# little bit more and also ensuring that## the relationship between the city and the state# isn’t as imbalanced as it’s been in the past.
AMNA NAWAZ: Following up on a campaign promise,## you said you were going to create a Department# of Community Safety with a billion-do.. What you announced this week, I think it’s# fair to describe, is a pared-down version.
So is this part of this paring down of ambitions## because of the budget crisis?# How should we look at this?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Our ambitions# will never be pared down.
AMNA NAWAZ: OK.
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: This is the## beginning of what it l.. However, New Yorkers can’t afford to wait for# an answer to the mental health crisis.
They## can’t afford to wait for a legislative process# to play out or for politics to come its course.## What this is all about is responding to the# crises, whether it’s the mental health crisis,## the crisis of gun violence, the crisis of hate# violence, even gender-based violence in the city.
We are finally co-hearing what# were previously disparate offices,## putting them within one portfolio# of work within city government,## and starting to respond to them in a manner that# actually befits the seriousness of the issue.
AMNA NAWAZ: So, Mr.
Mayor, we# are speaking on the last day of## Ramadan.
And as the first Muslim mayor# of New York City, you, I understand,## have been fasting this entire time as you are# governing in this very demanding environment.
Just give me a sense of what# your days have been like.
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Well, in many ways, the days# look as they did before.
There’s obviously## an absence of food and water over the course# of them.
This may be the first time they’re## seeing a Muslim in public office during the# month of Ramadan and all that comes with it.
For me, I am seeing so many Muslims who’ve# been here far longer than I have who’ve## been doing this work, and they have been# doing it no matter what the demand is.
AMNA NAWAZ: You also chose to break your fast one# day out on Rikers Island.
Tell me about that.
Why?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: It was one of the most# meaningful evenings I have had as the mayor.
And to be on Rikers Island praying# alongside incarcerated New Yorkers,## as well as New Yorkers who work on Rikers# Island, it was really an occasion to## recognize the humanity in others and also, in# doing so, recognize more of it in ourselves.
AMNA NAWAZ: It’s worth noting too, though,# in your first few months in office,## you have already seen anti-Muslim protesters# outside your home, not protesting your## policies or anything else, protesting your# faith outside of the place that you live.
You have been the target of attacks by lawmakers,## calling for you to be denaturalized and deported.# Representative Andy Ogles has said Muslims don’t## belong in American society.
Representative# Randy Fine said we need more Islamophobia,## not less.
Representative Andrew Clyde# said no more Islamic immigration.
I think anyone who grew up post-9/11 knows that# anti-Muslim bigotry isn’t anything new here, but,## to you, does it seem like there’s something# different or something new this time?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think there’s# an unabashed nature to it,## and it is being echoed from the# highest offices in this country.
They do so without any sense of shame.
And what# is remarkable about Islamophobia and anti-Muslim## bigotry is not that it is bigoted, for there is# so much bigotry in this country.
It is that there## are very few who speak up in opposition to it,# the manner in which it has become normalized.## And it is not exclusive to any one political# party.
It is endemic, frankly, to our politics.
And what this kind of bigotry shows# is a complete erasure of the million## or so Muslims who call the city home, whose# identity has often been one that they are made## to feel as if is in tension with being in New# Yorker, when, as I grew up here, I understood,## and so many others did, that there is no tension# in those identities.
They can be one and the same.
AMNA NAWAZ: But, Mr.
Mayor,# when they’re coming after you,## when they are showing your face on# TV screens, calling you a jihadist,## saying you’re the enemy, do you worry# about your own safety and security here?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I’m very lucky that I have an# incredible team of NYPD officers who keep me safe## each and every day.
And my fear, frankly,# is for those whose names we do not know,## whose professions we do not know who# are seen and understood to be Muslim## and will be attacked for it.
And they# will not have the protections that I do.
AMNA NAWAZ: Among the millions# of people, of course, that you## represent here in New York is also the largest# Jewish population any city outside of Israel,## over a million people, many of whom,# as you know, did not vote for you.
Have you met with the groups that have expressed# concern about what they say was a rolling back## of protections against antisemitism?# What are those conversations like?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: They have been continuing,# and it’s really been a pleasure to meet with## so many Jewish leaders across the city.# It was actually not that long ago in this## very room that I met with a number# of Orthodox leaders across the city,## and we discussed antisemitism and our commitment# to rooting it out across the five boroughs.
We also discussed childcare and housing and# polity of life issues, because those are also## the concerns that fill the lives of Jewish New# Yorkers across the city.
My job is not to be a## mayor just for those who voted for me or those# who agree with my politics.
My job is to be the## mayor for everyone who calls the city home, and# to deliver them a city that they can be proud of.
AMNA NAWAZ: So, Mr.
Mayor, there was a time# not too long ago when the president himself## was attacking you quite frequently,# and you him, we should say.
He was## calling you a lunatic.
You had promised to# be his worst nightmare if you were elected.
After your meeting with him in# the Oval Office in November,## all of that changed.
Why?# What happened to that room?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: You know, the president# and I have many disagreements.
We’re not## shy about them.
We have been public about# them.
We have been private about them.
One thing we have very much in agreement is a# love of New York City.
And so in that meeting,## in the subsequent conversations, and then# in the following Oval Office meeting,## I have gone back to the president# with our hopes for what it could## look like to actually put this city on# better footing in the years to come.
I put forward a plan to build more housing than# New York City has seen in any single housing## development since the early ’70s.
Alongside# that, I also made clear to the president,## as I have before, my continued belief# that ICE raids are cruel and inhumane,## that they do nothing to advance# the cause of public safety.
And I gave him and his chief of staff a list of# five who had been detained in or around Columbia## University.
And maybe about 30 or so minutes after# the meeting, the president called me to say that## he made the decision that he was going to release# that student who’d been detained that morning.
AMNA NAWAZ: So you found a way to have a# productive relationship with this president,## despite your many differences.# How would you describe that?
Is## it a partnership?
Is it an alliance?
What is it?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think it’s a productive# relationship between the mayor of this city,## the president of this country,# and one that is also honest.
I want to always be honest with the# president and with the public about## where those disagreements are and also that# my job is not to litigate the disagreements,## but to deliver for the people of New York City.
AMNA NAWAZ: How often do you# two text or talk to each other?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I will# leave that to the two of us,## but I will tell you that that’s# the focus of that relationship.
AMNA NAWAZ: Once a week,# twice a week?
Hotter?
Colder?
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I will keep# that between the two of us.
AMNA NAWAZ: I have to ask you about your# family before I let you go, because I think## anyone familiar with the specific and what I# would say very fortunate experience of being## raised by Desi parents, South Asian parents,# especially those with the courage and the hope## to forge an entirely new life in new nations,# you know that you can learn a lot from them.
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Yes.
AMNA NAWAZ: What have .. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: You know, my mother would always# tell me, if we don’t tell our own stories,## no one else will.
And she imbued within me# the importance of being proud of who you are.
And my father, also, he taught me, so often# when you’re growing up as a minority in a place,## you can grow up also with a sense# of almost a chip on your shoulder.## With it also comes the ability to see# the truth of a place in its entirety,## the promise of it and that which still needs# to be worked on.
And that was, in such a way,## so freeing to hear as a young person,# to understand my place in the world and## the responsibility that I had within it and# the fact that it was a gift, not a burden.
AMNA NAWAZ: Mr.
Mayor, it’s been such# a pleasure to speak with you today.
Zohran Mamdani, the mayor of New York# City, thank you for making the time.
ZOHRAN MAMDANI: You’re very# welcome.
Thank you so much.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM:## The airport delays tied to the partial# government shutdown aren’t going away## and may be getting worse.
Several major# airports are seeing long security lines,## flight delays, and growing frustration among# travelers as TSA workers are not getting paid.
Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International# and Houston’s George Bush Intercontinental## appear to be some of the worst hit# with delays of up to two hours or## more.
Philadelphia’s airport was# also very backed up this week.
TSA workers missed their first full# paycheck on the shutdown a week ago.## And some say they are calling# out sick, taking other jobs,## or simply quitting altogether# because of financial hardships.
CARLOS RODRIGUEZ, TSA Officer: People# have to make the hard choices between gas,## babysitting money, being able to come to# work.
It’s really difficult right now.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: For more on# these workers and their delays,## we are joined by The Wall Street Journal’s Allison# Pohle.
She covers the travel and tourism industry.
Allison, thanks so much for being here.
I mentioned Atlanta and Houston are# particularly bad right now.
Where## else are things bad?
And how does# this compare to, say, a week ago?
ALLISON POHLE, The Wall Street Journal: Things# have started to get worse across the country.
So we have seen longer delays in Phoenix today,# as well as at JFK.
So, compared to a week ago,## these delays are much longer.
We have also seen# an increase in the number of people increase in## people traveling for spring break.
So there# are more travelers.
It’s also a longer period## of time that TSA workers have not been# paid and where they’re coming up on yet## another month where rent will be due,# utility bills will be due, et cetera.
So we’re seeing lines grow across the country.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Given that# all TSA workers are suffering,## why is it that we’re seeing problems# only particularly in some airports## and not others?
Like, I understand# Chicago O’Hare was pretty clear.
ALLISON POHLE: That has been the# case so far.
In certain situations,## workers are under different arrangements.
So, in Atlanta, for example, workers have## told me that they have to pay for gas, of# course, to get to work, but they have also## historically had to pay for their parking.
When# you’re not getting paid, those expenses add up.## So what the airport has done is stepped in to# cover parking for TSA workers during this time.
But even though the situation is the same across# most airports, it also does vary.
There are some## TSA workers who are not federal employees.
So# some airports, like Kansas City, for example,## in San Francisco use private contracting services,# where private workers are able to perform## the duties of TSA officers, but they’re not# affected by the shutdown.
They are getting paid.
So there are airports that# are in different situations.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I see.
We saw the funding bill in Congress again failed## today.
Is there any sense of# where this goes from here?
ALLISON POHLE: It’s still an extremely# tough battle going forward.
So Democrats## have introduced legislation that would# fund the Homeland Security Department,## except for ICE and except for Customs and# Border Protection, or it would fund just TSA.
But Republicans have voted those down.# They have introduced bills to fund the## entire Homeland Security Department,# and Democrats have not voted for those.## So it’s a tough road going forward.
On both# sides, it seems like no one has moved so far.
And so what I’m hearing from TSA# workers is that March 27, next Friday,## is the day that Congress is scheduled to go on# its two-week recess.
That is a make-or-break## day for them.
If Congress ends up leaving# for the recess without reaching a deal,## TSA workers say they’re not sure they’re going# to be able to make it into work after that.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Yes, I can only imagine,# if Congress is going off on a break of their## own when TSA workers are not being# paid, that would be tough to swallow.
You recently spoke with the general# manager of Atlanta’s airport about## all of this.
How did he explain how# they’re trying to get out of this morass?
ALLISON POHLE: What they’re trying to do# is just support workers in ways that they## can.
So I mentioned the parking# earlier.
They’re also giving the## workers one meal voucher per shift.
And# so that’s their way of enticing people## to come to work and show them their# appreciation for what they’re doing.
In terms of getting out of it, I think,# unfortunately, it’s just going to get## a lot tougher.
So the week of March 29 is# actually the week that most schools go on## spring break.
About 40 percent of schools across# the country are in spring break during that time.
So, at Atlanta, for example, the general# manager didn’t have the didn’t have a full## solution.
They’re just taking it day by day.# He did say that, at least in Atlanta, people,## though they’re waiting in extremely# long lines, have been orderly,## they understand what’s going on and# they’re appreciative to the workers.
But, of course, it is really tough when you get## there three hours early and# you still miss your flight.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: That is Allison# Pohle of The Wall Street Journal.
Thank you so much for being here.
ALLISON POHLE: Thanks for having me.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The U.S.
job# market has been cooling recently,## and government data shows it’s only# getting harder for Americans to find a job.
One sector that has proved tougher than most is# manufacturing.
President Trump has promised a## manufacturing boom in both his terms, but while# he’s been able to get pledges for more factory## investment, the actual jobs inside those# factories tell a different story thus far.
Economics correspondent# Paul Solman has this report.
PAUL SOLMAN: The Ohio State marching# band and its featured instrument,## the brassy sousaphone, emblem of school spirit# and state pride, made just outside Cleveland.
ROB HINES, Sousaphone Buffer, Conn Selmer:## We handcraft everything.
We have perfected# the process for it and.. 58 years in our facility.
And that’s what I think# you get when you get that American craftsmanship.
PAUL SOLMAN: Rob Hines, an American craftsman,## sousaphone buffer at the Conn Selmer# plant, where he’s worked for nine years.
ROB HINES: It’s not an easy job.
It’s a grueling# job.
But we do it because we love what we do.
PAUL SOLMAN: And what they lovingly produce,## which is why he and co-workers were stunned# when the company suddenly said it will## shutter the factory in June and relocate to# China, shunting 150 people to the street.
ROB HINES: It’s a lot of fear right# now.
A lot of people are afraid.
WYATT GEORSKEY, Sousaphone Buffer, Conn# Selmer: We’re talking about some of the## best brass instrument craftsmen in the world# going into job interviews and being to.. well, that’s good and all, but you# don’t actually have any skills.
PAUL SOLMAN: Wyatt Georskey,# another buffer.
His future?
WYATT GEORSKEY: I don’t know what I’m going# to do.
We’re all left in a limbo right now.
PAUL SOLMAN: Of course, some of# you have seen it as long as I have,## manufacturing jobs on the wane ever since 1979.
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United# States: Jobs and factories will come## roaring back into our country,# and you see happening already.
PAUL SOLMAN: It’s a trend President# Trump has famously vowed to reverse## with tariffs and domestic investment.# Foreign leaders and business executives## have frequently visited the White House# grounds pledging to spend in the U.S.
of A. DONALD TRUMP: In 12 months, I# secured commitments for more## than $18 trillion pouring# in from all over the globe.
PAUL SOLMAN: This number is widely thought to# be implausible and almost assuredly includes## commitments that were made before Trump’s second# term.
But there’s no contesting the fact that,## since President Trump took office, the U.S.# has lost nearly 100,000 manufacturing jobs.
The administration and its allies, however,# tout their dedication to a turnaround.
JOHN PAULSON, Founder, Paulson & Co.
: We# need to protect American jobs and protect## American manufacturing.
We can’t have Americans,## American producers closing# American factories and offshoring.
PAUL SOLMAN: And yet it’s# this same famed investor,## John Paulson, who owns the brass# instrument factory.
Paulson hosted a## $50 million fund-raiser for President# Trump during the 2024 campaign.
ROB HINES: A lot of our members support# Trump and believed in the administration.
PAUL SOLMAN: Or did, claims# Conn Selmer union Rob Hines.
And how are people feeling about it now?
ROB HINES: Some people feel slighted.# Some people are even questioning if## Trump actually knows about the# moves his allies are making in## the dark.
Some people still believe in# administration.
Some people feel let down.
PAUL SOLMAN: In recent years, the company# had already been moving parts to China,## cheaper production, to buff the bottom# line, but at a hidden cost, says Hines.
ROB HINES: We have seen over the# last year the quality deteriorate## just from trying to integrate those foreign parts.
PAUL SOLMAN: Wait, the myopic maximizing# of shareholder value we have heard so much## about?
Or do the workers here# just see what they want to see?
ROB HINES: I don’t think it would be# just because it’s in our interest.
As## somebody who works with these parts day# in and day out, six days a week, we see## the quality, and the employees have complained# about the quality.
And it’s fallen on deaf ears.
PAUL SOLMAN: Meanwhile, the job attrition# in Wyatt Georskey’s part of the plant.
WYATT GEORSKEY: At times, it’s been over 100,# and now we’re down to this group of 16 of us## who are sending out the last American-made# French horns and sousaphones and tubas.
PAUL SOLMAN: Plus, there’s another cost# often ignored when a plant goes under,## the loss of internal community.
ROB HINES: That’s just as big a weight# as losing your job financially.
I mean,## it might sound kind of bizarre to say,# but a lot of people are devastated,## because we have people 40, 50# years have been working together.
WYATT GEORSKEY: It’s been a tragedy, right,## not only for community, but for# bar buddies and friends everywhere.
PAUL SOLMAN: But that too has# been happening for eons.
In fact,## the destruction of all those jobs down on the# farm is what helped create the manufacturing## boom of the last century.
But is there no way to# protect American jobs from foreign competition?
The push now is, let’s get manufacturers from here## and especially abroad to bring their# manufacturing to the United States,## which is then supposedly going to create# more jobs than at least are here now.
ROBERT LAWRENCE, Harvard# University: The question is,## how significant would those jobs# be relative to t.. PAUL SOLMAN: Trade economist Robert Lawrence.
ROBERT LAWRENCE: We had a $1.2 tril.. all the money that is going abroad# would be used to buy American goods.
PAUL SOLMAN: Even under such a fantasy,# how much would actual factory floor jobs## increase?
Professor Lawrence estimates# less than 1 percent.
And, of course,## American-made products would then# cost more.
In addition, he says: ROBERT LAWRENCE: If we were self-sufficient,## what would it do to the opportunities for the# typical worker in the United States who doe.. have a college education?
Would it create# large numbers of employment opportunities?## That’s basically what’s been driving our# policies.
And the answer is very little.
But, in addition, those jobs# are increasingly likely to## be displaced as a result of increased automation.
PAUL SOLMAN: And perhaps increasingly likely# to be overpromised, like two Ohio Intel plants.
TIM BUBB, Licking County, Ohio, Commissioner:# Intel promised 5,000 jobs into construction.## We’re seeing less than half that, and 3,000# permanent jobs to man those two plants and## manufacture silicon chips.
Frankly, I think that’s# overpromised and underdelivered, as they say.
PAUL SOLMAN: Licking County Commissioner Tim# Bubb, where the Intel project is located.
Is it an unrealistic expectation that we’re## going to have lots more manufacturing# jobs in this country than we used to?
TIM BUBB: Well, I’m not going# to go as far as unrealistic,## but you don’t want to be overly optimistic.# We’re still an expensive labor market.
We have## competitors around the world.
It’s# a world market now in Asia and other## places that have been pretty darn competitive# in manufacturing and shipping to this country.
PAUL SOLMAN: More over, ads Bubb: TIM BUBB: One of the problems we have# in this country is trained work force.## You can move manufacturing plants back# here, but who’s going to work in them?
PAUL SOLMAN: But at the Alliance for American# Manufacturing, the watchword is patience.
SCOTT PAUL, President, Alliance for# American Manufacturing: Just as it## took a couple of decades# for us.. I don’t think that we’re going to see# immediate results in manufacturing.
PAUL SOLMAN: Scott Paul runs the Alliance.
SCOTT PAUL: I’m optimistic that over time, we# will see manufacturing job growth com.. both the massive amount of construction that’s# going on right now, the trade deficit coming## down a little bit, and a reshoring trend that was# already under way before Trump became president.
PAUL SOLMAN: So he says manufacturing jobs# won’t be stuck forever at today’s lower level,## and new corporate investment promised by Trump# will be part of the renaissance.
The U.S.,## he says, added a million manufacturing# jobs between 2010 and 2019,## when many thought that simply wouldn’t happen.
SCOTT PAUL: It’s not impossible to regrow the# sector if we have the right policies.
There## might be a ceiling on the manufacturing job# growth that we can see because of automation## and productivity, but that doesn’t mean that# we can’t grow the sector again over time.
PAUL SOLMAN: Patience is a luxury for# the likes of Wyatt Georskey, though.
WYATT GEORSKEY: I’m not even thinking day# to day.
I’m thinking second to second.## All I’m thinking is, can I get enough# sousaphones out, can I get enough tubas## out that they won’t close this plant at# a whim because they see productivity dip?
All I can think about are the people around# me and my duty to them and to our legacy## to keep the place open just a little# longer so we can get a few paychecks.
PAUL SOLMAN: As of last week,# the plant was still open,## the paychecks still being issued.
But# the deadline seems to be the end of June.
For the “PBS News Hour,” Paul Solman.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: With the war in Iran# stretching on for almost a month and## President Trump struggling to# contain the economic fallout,## now is a good time for the# analysis of Brooks and Capehart.
That’s “The Atlantic”‘s David Brooks# and Jonathan Capehart of MS NOW.
Good evening, gentlemen.
JONATHAN CAPEHART: Hi, William.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Jonathan, as# yo.. the president has given all sorts of# conflicting ideas as to why we got## into this war, how the war is currently going# and what might happen to get out of this war.
The thing that’s not unclear at all is the# toll, the lives lost, the infrastructure damage,## the economic toll, with the Pentagon now saying# that they might need an extra $200 billion to## continue fighting this.
What does this say about# the ongoing — about this ongoing conflict?
JONATHAN CAPEHART: Where to begin, William.
I’m still trying to understand what the# president’s true objectives are.
Is it## regime change?
And, if so, who comes next?# What comes next?
He wants them to surrender,## but in the same breath says there’s no# one to talk to.
We’ve killed everybody.
Just before we came on air, there’s a long# TRUTH Social post from the president saying,## basically, we’re almost there and here# are all the things we’ve been able to do,## and then said to the allies, if# you guys want to open the strait,## that’s on you.
And he said, we don’t# use the strait, we don’t need it.
OK, so then what does that mean for# oil production?
What does that mean for## Americans here at home, who have seen their# — have seen gas prices rise?
By tomorrow,## it could be that gas has increased a# full dollar since the start of the war.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: A huge jump.
JONATHAN CAPEHART: A huge jump.. I mean, I would just love it if the# president would do an Oval Office## address and talk to the American people# formally about why he did what he did,## what he sees his objectives are, or his# accomplishments, and then tell us what’s next.
That would be infinitely more helpful than# what we’ve seen over the last four weeks.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Let’s say# he did that.
Would it matter?
DAVID BROOKS: I think so.
I was pleased that he## said in this TRUTH Social post that# he was thinking of winding it down.
JONATHAN CAPEHART: Right, winding it down.
DAVID BROOKS: And he said we’ve achieved t.. where they either decide we’re going to clear the## Straits of Hormuz or we’re just going to# try and negotiate a settlement right now.
And clearing the Straits of Hormuz is a# multiweek, maybe multimonth operation.
And## that’s where the $200 billion and the# Marines were going in, would come in.
And that could involve all#sorts of things.
And that is just an ugly proposition.
If we could clear# the Straits of Hormuz in a week,## I’d say go for it.
But that doesn’t# seem to be on offer.
So we’re looking## at a lot of economic turmoil, a lot of# death, probably boots on the ground.
And so that’s an unattractive# option.
Right now, he can say,## the region’s language is mowing the grass,# that Iran tries to build up terror capability,## terror capability, and every once in a while# you have to mow the grass, which — to reduce## their terror capability.
And this would# be the mother of all mowing the grasses.
But he could#say, we have — basically, the key thing is we have reduced their ability to# be a regional power.
And we may have eliminated## their ability to be a regional power.
And# that would be a total win for the region.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And that is a legitimate# argument, that they have genuinely done that.
DAVID BROOKS: They have.
They’ve decapitated# the regime.
They’ve gotten rid of a lot of the## Hamas and Hezbollah.
They’ve taken out a lot# of the weapons capabilities.
Most importantly,## they’ve taken out the factories where they make## the weapons.
So that takes a long# time to build all that stuff back.
And so that would be somewhat of a win.
It would# not be a total win.
It would be a very ugly win,## because we’d basically be telling Iran, you# intimidated us.
You close the straits and## we can’t — you sort of beat us on that# front.
And so it would not be good.
But## it might be — of all the bad options in# front of us, that might be a decent one.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Yes.
But in the interim, Jo.. although the president says their military# has been utterly destroyed, they are showing,## in that zero percent that# they allegedly have left,## remarkable tenacity to punish other Gulf states,# to destroy critical oil and gas infrastructure.
I mean, analysts have been arguing that what’s# been done in Qatar recently has be — could be## years undoing.
The Iranians don’t seem# to be ready to give up this fight yet.
JONATHAN CAPEHART: Right.
And that’s why there seems to be#this dissonance and disconnect, certainly for me here in Washington,# but I’m sure for the American people## who are just loosely watching.
The# president says one thing, such as,## the straits are open, everything is great,# and then the split screen tankers on fire.
The words that are coming out of the president’s# mouth and out of his administration don’t seem## to match the facts on the ground, which is# why I think it would be really important for## the president to come to the American# people and explain what’s happened.
The problem that he has, and the problem,# admittedly, I would have watching such an## Oval Office address is, I would not know# how much of what he says I can trust.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.
Do you think that the rising energy prices,# David, are going to force .. DAVID BROOKS: Not necessarily.
I mean, it’s not# great to have the gas above up a buck, as you say.
But if you look at his base, we had the numbers# on earlier in the show, he’s not losing his base.
And he could say, if there#was a plausible idea that you could really change the regime, it would be worth# a couple weeks of economic hardship.
But there’s probably no#plausible possibility of that.
And then the economic hardship is the economic hardship.
So, to me, it’s not a killer, but it’s certainly# pressure on him.
And he’s the guy who follows## the stock market.
Affordability is a number one# issue.
It doesn’t seem to bug him, particularly.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.
DAVID BROOKS: Which is interesting to me.
He’s# not, like, trying .. So he seems to have decided,#this is worth doing.
And you could say, I don’t — any war is not worth doing if it’s# being led by Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth.
So that would be where I#would share some of Jonathan’s concerns.
But if they could reduce the power# of Iran for the next generation,## that would not be good for the people of Iran,# because they’ll still be stuck with this regime,## but it would be good for the region.# And you’re seeing the Gulf states,## you’re seeing the Saudis basically fighting# alongside Israel and saying, what Iran did in## bombing all these states was a true atrocity# that’s altering the landscape of that region.
And that too is — the more we#can get a grand coalition against Iran, not bad.
JONATHAN CAPEHART: However long that lasts.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.
I mean, what do you make of this argume.. Israel’s making, and certainly some foreign# policy hawks, that, as David is describing,## that it might be worth it, even if you put aside# your feelings about Trump and Hegseth and the way## he’s operated this and the way he’s communicated# about this, that what they have done to a## regime that so many people do argue is an awful# totalitarian regime, that it could be worth it?
JONATHAN CAPEHART: Might be worth it.# Could be worth it.
If it were possible,## why didn’t previous presidents of both parties# do it?
Why did they always seem to stop?
There is always something that stopped them.
And,# look, I would be 100 percent behind you, David,## if I knew what day two was and if I trusted# the people who were doing all the planning.## I can’t trust the folks, simply because their# words don’t match what’s happening on the ground.
But, also, the way the president launched# into this, great, you can start a war,## but what’s the game plan?
What is your# end goal?
How achievable is it?
And then,## once you’re done or while you’re doing it, what# does the rest of the neighborhood look like?
The idea that the president# was told by military leaders,## they’re going to probably close the# Strait of Hormuz, but you’ve got to## be prepared for that, he got that intel# and decided, I don’t care about that.
I mean, so, Mr.
President, what is your day after# or two days after or a week after?
Let’s say that## this very rosy idea of what the region could look# like, let’s say that is possible.
Mr.
President,## how are you going to make the Brooks# vision real and tell us the truth?
And the fact that we don’t know what that answer# is should be alarming to more than just me.
DAVID BROOKS: I would just say one# thing about it, that what Trump has## done has made the previous presidents look# bad because they should have done something.
Iran has always been the central threat# and George W. Bush went after Iraq.
What## the heck?
Right.
Barack Obama abandoned the# red line in Syria, gave sort of a green light## there in Syria.
Joe Biden didn’t do much.# Trump didn’t do much in the first term.
And so the problem built.
Now,# is the problem solved?
No,## it’s not solved.
And I think — I don’t# know if — this is where U.S.
and Israeli## interests really diverge.
We have a much# stronger interest in trying to wind down.
The Israelis do not have that#interest.
And so that will be a tension.
But if you can get a weakened# regime, I don’t know,## it looks not as pessimistic# as I was last week about it.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Oh, call that progress.
All right, let’s take it to Friday night.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: David Brooks… JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes, you didn’t.. (LAUGHTER) WILLIAM BRANGHAM.. JONATHAN CAPEHART: But# that’s OK.
We’re out of time.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: We will come back# next week.
We will talk .. JONATHAN CAPEHART: Great.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM.. JONATHAN CAPEHART: You too, William.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Thanks.
Thanks.
March Madness is in full swing, and# it’s that time of year when even## those of us not inclined to gamble# might just toss a few dollars into## the office pool hoping to just pick up# the right upset and land a big payout.
For our podcast “Settle In,” Geoff Bennett# recently spoke with journalist and author David## Hill.
He’s extensively covered sports betting# for “Rolling Stone” and in his upcoming book.
Here’s a brief excerpt.
GEOFF BENNETT: One thing I know that a lot# of casual batters don’t realize is tha.. if you win too consistently, that# sportsbooks can really shut you out.
Tell me tell me more about that.
DAVID HILL, American Gambler Substack:# This is something that American gamblers## are growing more and more aware of as we see# the expansion of sports be.. particularly with the types of companies# that are controlling the market right now,## what some people would call# recreational sportsbooks.
And that’s that the larger sportsbooks# in America like FanDuel, DraftKings,## MGM, Caesars, that they will — if a player shows# any real propensity to win, that they’re adept at## understanding how to win at gambling, they will# limit their bets, that they will limit those folks## to betting small amounts of money to protect their# own liabilities against those types of bettors.
And this shocks some people.
I mean, originally,# the bettors who were getting limited in the early## days of sports betting sort of growing# in the United States, were professionals,## people that bet pretty large sums of money# and were winning large sums of money.
But, at this point, it’s# pretty scattershot.
I mean,## I think a lot of these sportsbooks are# painting with a pretty wide brush.
And## we’re seeing that a lot of gamblers who# don’t bet very large amounts of money,## myself included, have found that they have been# limited by sportsbooks, down to where they can## only bet a penny on a game or something like# that, because they maybe won too much money.
Or even — you don’t even have to really win# a lot of money.
You just have to show that## you’re able to win at a certain type of# bet or a certain type of sport over time.
GEOFF BENNETT: Well, tell me# about your experience with this.
DAVID HILL: My experience is that I’m not# somebody who bets lots of money.
I’m somebody who,## if I bet a couple hundred bucks on a game,# that was a pretty decent size bet for me.
And I found that in a number of sportsbooks,# my bets would — over time got limited down## to where I couldn’t bet $5, $10.
And sometimes,# in some cases, I couldn’t bet more than a penny## simply because I was winning.
I was betting on# things that the sportsbook maybe felt like they## didn’t have as strong of a model or as good of# a sense of what the price should be that I did.
And that’s essentially what sportsbooks are# doing.
They’re profiling their players to say,## if this player seems to understand# the bet better than we do, we just## won’t take their bet.
But if the player# seems to be someone who is just sort of## betting foolishly and is likely to lose,# we will let them bet as much as they want.
In fact, the more foolish this bettor looks,# the higher limit we will give them.
And I think## that these two things in combination is a real# problem, The fact that you limit people who win,## but you will expand the limits for# people who lose is a bad recipe.
In Europe, they call this the ban-or-bankrupt# model, that you ban anybody that’s going to win## over time and then you bankrupt all the players# who you have identified are never going to win.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: You can watch# that full conversation and all our## episodes of “Settle In” on YouTube# or wherever you get your podcasts.
Coming up tonight on “Washington Week” with# “The Atlantic”‘s Jeffrey Goldberg and his## guests discussing the growing opposition# to America’s war with Iran.
On “Horizons”## this weekend, we discuss Artemis II, NASA’s# first manned mission to the moon in decades.
And,## on “Compass Points,” Nick Schifrin and his panel# discuss the lingering questions about America’s## ultimate objective in Iran as# the war enters its fourth week.
Those are all right here on your local# PBS station and on our YouTube page.
And that is the “News Hour” for# tonight.
I’m William Brangham.
On behalf of the entire “News Hour” team, thank# you so much for joining us.
Have a great weekend.
